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How Gaslighting Occurs Everyday – Conversations That Matter – Episode 2

01/27/2021

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Dr. Dar

Episode 2:  Conversations that Matter

How Gaslighting Occurs in Everyday Relationships

Sharing experiences of gaslighting at home, work, and with medical organizations… 

The last four years in our socio economic climate, the issue of gaslighting has come to the forefront for many of us. It’s in the mainstream now, so to speak, and we saw what happened to a larger community becoming victims of gaslighting.

The intention for today’s show is to increase the awareness of what gaslighting is, from deeply personal experiences, and sharing some examples of it along with how it happens in everyday relationships.

Disclaimer:  Please note, the information provided in this show pertaining to any aspect of your life is not intended to be a substitute for the professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by your medical provider, clergy or mental health provider. The individuals in the show are not attempting to diagnose, treat, prevent or cure any physical, mental or emotional issue disease or conditioning condition. This show is for educational and informational purposes only so that you can self identify if this is for you, and then find the path for resolution for yourself and healing for yourself.

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Transcript
How Gaslighting Occurs in Everyday Relationships

Welcome to the Conversations That Matter Show.

I’m Dr. Dar host of the conversations that matter show and your feel good Alchemist. I help women people pleasers thrive in their life, business and relationships by feeling good and managing their energy, emotions and sensitivity.

In the last four years of our socio-economic climate, the issue of gaslighting has come to the forefront for many of us. It’s in the mainstream now, so to speak, and we saw what happened to a larger community becoming victims of gaslighting.  Gaslighting is an extreme form of control and manipulation that overpowers the person being gaslighted.  Unfortunately, being gaslighted as a young child creates a toxic overpower/power dynamic that can continue into adulthood creating severe trauma that is built over time… and perhaps even a dependency on the gaslighter, because that is what the gaslighter wants… until they no longer need you.

The intention for today’s show is to increase the awareness of what gaslighting is, from deeply personal experiences, and sharing some examples of it.

Please note, the information provided in this show pertaining to any aspect of your life is not intended to be a substitute for the professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by your medical provider, clergy or mental health provider. The individuals in the show are not attempting to diagnose, treat, prevent or cure any physical, mental or emotional issue disease or conditioning condition. This show is for educational and informational purposes only so that you can self identify if this is for you, and then find the path for resolution for yourself and healing for yourself.

I’m excited to have Sama Morningstar join me today.

We’re going to talk about this topic of gaslighting.

Sama founded the wound centered healing temple in 2018 as a collaborative space to support people of all genders, to learn about the importance of our experiences in and of the womb, heal the wounds inflicted on us on all of us by womb abuse and suppression of patriarchy, and reclaim the power of the traditions of womb reverence that predate the patriarchal system, out of her own personal journey healing from early childhood trauma.

Founded in the domination model of relationships between men and woman, she has emerged with a passionate devotion to remember reactivate and reestablish womb power as our center of personal power and inner guidance. She has received potent sole purpose, visions about the importance of returning to a partnership model of relating with each other and with all beings and diligently applies this model to all of her relationships. She loves to share her experience of how living and embodied wisdom, wisdom creates an abundant fountain of vitality, that can nourish our dreams of correcting the course of humanity, away from self destruction, towards harmonious communion, and belonging in the ecology of life.

Welcome Sama. 

It’s a pleasure to have you on the show today. I want to talk first about what what the Holy womb is so that we can put that into a bit more practical language. It’s something I have definitely worked on in myself, but I want to explain what that is.  <Here is Sama’s post about this dialogue on gaslighting and her experience of it.>

Sama Morningstar  03:24

That’s a term, the holy womb, that I hear a lot of people talking about. I say it a little bit differently in my work, although I feel it means somewhat the same thing. I call it the bio mystical womb… that brings it into our awareness as something that we can relate to on a biological level. Whether we have a physical uterus or not, we all came from a womb, we were all born from our mother’s womb. That’s one thing we all share.

Those experiences in our mother’s womb being conceived, just stated and birthed our fundamental blueprint experiences for our entire lives. They program our whole bio biology, our emotional body, our spiritual body, our energy body, with that blueprint, those those initial moments. 

How many of us can say for certain that we know for sure that our parents had a mutually pleasureful and orgasmic and respectful and loving and sacred sexual union that conceived us? There’s a lot of people that can’t for sure, affirm.

Dr. Dar – This is so important. I think we could do a whole other whole nother show just talking about that, right. 

Sama Morningstar  04:58  That can set the blueprint that’s in our DNA, about what life is about, that begins with that moment of conception starts to give us an idea that every time people conceive, they’re creating a blueprint for a new life. That is the bio mystical quality of it that caused us all into a sense of responsibility.

What are we actually creating?

How can we create through that conception not only of of a child, but of anything that we conceive together because a lot of people are having sex without conceiving a child, but what are they conceiving? What are we creating with our sexual energy?

I’m just beginning to share with you through these these descriptions, what I mean by bio mystical, and that is the beginning the conception and then our gestation and birth How is the mother supported throughout the process, that biological process of gestation, usually insufficiently? Yeah, the chest and all that. So all of this connecting the biology and the mystical of all of these things?

Dr. Dar Hawks  06:20 It also sounds like bringing some mental emotional and spiritual clarity to, to the act, but also the purpose for engaging in that action. Instead of just diving down do saying, We want babies let’s have children, okay, boom, here we are. Now let’s figure it out. There’s, there’s purposeful engagement into it. I love that.

I want to talk about the official official definition of gaslighting. Officially, it’s a form of psychological manipulation in which a person seeks to sow seeds of doubt. In a targeted individual. I think that word targeted is very important, or in members of a targeted group, making them question their own memory, perception and sanity. They they use persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, lying, and lying. And gaslighting also involves attempts to destabilize the victim and D legitimize the victims belief. So how would you define gaslighting? And what would you add to that? 

Sama Morningstar  07:28 The big word for me in that whole definition… that’s not in that definition, but that I would add to it, but basically encapsulates that is the invalidation.

Gaslighting is the invalidation of someone else’s sovereignty and, and wisdom and right to exist even on their own terms. And so it’s all those strategies are ways of invalidating and undermining a person’s or a group of people’s sovereignty and right to exist on their own terms. 

Dr. Dar Hawks  08:04  Today, we really want to talk about a personal experiences to make this topic of gaslighting not a disorder or dysfunction or any any of those terms that are used to invalidate and really use our experiences and share our experiences of how gaslighting presents itself in our lives and our different relationships.

We’re going to walk through some of the different relationships and make this really relatable so that you can understand it a bit better and be able to self identify when and if it’s happening. I feel like Sama from our conversations that you’ve earned a master’s degree through being a recipient of gaslighting at a very early age.

How old were you when this first started?

Sama Morningstar  08:58  Well, you know, it’s all blended together with my mother’s experience. And I think I was so steeped in her experience of being gaslighted/gaslit that I wonder that myself right how do we how do we conjugate this this verb?

From conception, I mean, from even before conception…she was withholding information, essential information… particularly about menstruation – fundamental ways that women are gaslighted by the structures in society, but that the whole society is saying that this essential biological and spiritual and emotional process of life that that women are cycling through and get initiated into is not important. That’s the message that we’re getting and that the spiritual and religious structures and belief systems of society have been indoctrinating people and so my mom thought she was dying at 10 years old when she had her first period.

Dr. Dar Hawks  10:13  I think that’s very relatable for me as well. I didn’t know what it was. And at 11 here comes this fluid… I had no idea what it was… my parents arranged for me to go home and stay in bed… I was handed some books to read. 

<Added note: Parents are not equipped, or educated on how to have these conversations.  There is no blame being placed here.  Instead an invitation is being shared to have the conversations, no matter how awkward or uncomfortable>

Sama Morningstar  10:30  Yeah, right. And so this this General milieu of sweeping this essential source of life process that’s going on in every wound bearing body, sweeping it under the rug, and making it this shameful topic. And all of that is this collective gaslighting about the importance of this, our bodies are saying, this is a really important process, right? I mean, if you were bleeding from any other place in your body, it would be like, Whoa, stop, pay attention. What’s going on? Let’s pay attention to this.

Dr. Dar Hawks  11:06

Yeah, exactly. I mean, even in the advertising of products for menstruation, we’re just now starting to see some acceptance of, you know, what it is? We’re not quite there yet. But I remember a time when, you know, you’d see an ad for menstrual products, and there was no picture of what it was or what it did, or liquid blue liquid, right? quality of the product, right? It just goes to show how ill equipped society is to have these deep Conversations, you know, these conversations… and they don’t have to be icky, right? They can just be Matter of fact. So yeah, to your point. What are some examples of what you experienced at that young age?

Sama Morningstar  11:55  Well, I didn’t necessarily experience the same thing my mom did, but that that energy was still there. And I think, you know, my conception, I experienced a form of it, that was again, a societal collective thing. But between my biological father and my mother, when my mother realized she still even even after learning what menstruation was, she still had no idea about her fertility.

And as she started to become sexually active, she realized at a certain point, what was what the possibilities were, and she went to her boyfriend, my biological father and said, what are we going to do if I get pregnant?

And he said, that would be your problem. Hmm. So this is a fundamental part of gaslighting, where the, you know, I, when we talked before, and I was doing some reflecting on this, this is one of the things that we can notice as a signal that gaslighting might be going on where the gaslighter is taking zero responsibility for a circumstance or situation, that both people share 50% responsibility for life pregnancy.

And systemically. Men are taught to take zero responsibility for pregnancy and birth. especially young men are not taught how to take full responsibility for their part in pregnancy and birth. When you look at how young people are taught about their sexuality and their fertility. That’s, I mean, there may be some lip service paid to young men, but the general culture is that they can get off scot free if if they get a young woman pregnant, especially when my mom was in her teenage years. I ended up being conceived I was already conceived, she broke up with him right then and there. Because she felt so affronted by his lack of ability, you know, desire, even inclination or indication that he would ever take any responsibility, right? I mean, it was just so blatant. And so but so that moment, and then and then the decisions that my mother made after that these are all creating imprints on my life. So a male responsibility does not exist. Big imprint. That affects a lot of relationships. 

Sama Morningstar  14:30  And then that my mother’s desire for that or reaching out to have some kind of is just rejected, right and and treated like, treated unimportant as unimportant. Right. And then her knowing that if she shared with her parents that she was pregnant once she found out she knew that she would be her desires to to come pleat the pregnancy and carry and carry her baby to term to keep me would be gaslit and overwritten by her mother’s desire to have the beaver cleaver family and not have a daughter with a child out of wedlock, and she would be made to go to have an abortion in Mexico, she knew that that for a certainty and that she would have no way out of it. And so she kept me a secret.

This was internalized gaslighting, because she just knew so for sure that she would her feelings and her opinions and desires about it would be completely disregarded, that she would be made to feel guilty, she would be shamed, all of those things that were in the definition of gaslighting would be happening to her, and she would have no choice but to go along with the desires and the you know, what my grandmother’s plan was going to be?

And so she kept me a secret. So that created a blueprint for me of a knot of hiding for my very life, huh? Wow, that it was a danger to my life, to even exist, to even have my existence be known by those who are supposed to be loving and caring for me.

Dr. Dar Hawks  16:22  I think we’re going to be talking a little bit about that. How did your parents Gaslight each other when they fought or? Or played the blame game? Do you have some examples?

Sama Morningstar  16:34  That first example is one way and my mom got rid of him. But she ended up getting together with another man who and eventually adopted me Who, who at least had the idea that he wanted to take responsibility for family. And so he was willing to sort of adopt me, unofficially, and then eventually, officially, but they’re, you know, they had all kinds of ways of not really being able to communicate effectively with each other.

Basically what happens is one person wants has a certain way of looking at things, both people have a certain way of looking at things. And they differ. I’m simplifying this a lot, right? Yeah, ways of looking at things differ. And they argue about it, because they might feel strongly about, you know, we ought to do things this way. No, we ought to do things this way. Or, or they felt hurt by a way that the person the other person did something and didn’t like it. And with, you know, when they would say something the other person would deny it. Now, I didn’t do that. That’s not what I really did. You know, and for example, my adopted father was violent, physically violent with my mother on on several occasions, and completely denied it.

I mean, it would escalate because when you’re not really able to validate someone else’s feelings, even if they might be different than what you how you think they should feel, then then it just escalates. Yeah, and the anger sets in for sure. And you don’t have control yourself. Yeah, they just had no skills and a lot of early trauma, early blueprints, like we talked about with mine, that they never became aware of that we’re just running their lives and their emotional responses to things and their habitual, you know, verbal communication responses. And and, you know, every time someone says, or does something that reminds you of someone that hurts you, in your childhood that you had no control over, you go into whatever childhood strategy that you developed as a child to cope with the situation, just because

Dr. Dar Hawks  19:03  What were some of the strategies that you, you created? 

Sama Morningstar  19:12  I sort of modeled a lot of my strategies off of the ones that I witnessed my parents doing. So certainly, the blaming the other person, if I’m feeling hurt, a lot of it too, is isolating myself, too. And my mom did that, to a certain degree to have just that it was it felt safer to be alone than to be with other people. Because they’re, you know, and I needed a buddy that I would engage with. It would end up getting to those, especially in any kind of intimate engagement, you know, any intimate closeness those patterns would come up. You know, we get it. If those patterns are unexamined. We get attracted to this to people who have similar puzzle piece patterns. And those come up when we get close to them. For us to look…

Dr. Dar Hawks  20:13 I often say the purpose of our relationships is for us to heal an aspect of ourselves. You used the word hurt. And I just wanted to give a give an example of not being taught effective communication from a place of personal accountability and ownership.

The distinction between you hurt me, you know, you hurt my feelings. Contrast that with I feel hurt. I feel, you know, why come this way? Because of this experience. You know, can we talk through it? And it’s a very, you know, yeah, it’s, there’s, it’s a subtle difference in how to communicate, but it’s an important and crucial difference,

Sama Morningstar  20:57  It speaks to one of these. One of the ways that I experienced gaslighting, which is this, get receiving this sense that it wasn’t okay, it wasn’t safe, for me wasn’t acceptable for me to have any feelings. My feelings were not important, were not valid, especially if they were in contrast to the feelings of my adult caretakers.

Dr. Dar Hawks  21:31  Well, I think women in general and and men who embrace their feminine qualities definitely have been can resonate with, you know, we’re not supposed to emote, we’re not supposed to feel…right, and that our feelings are somehow detrimental, right,

 

Sama Morningstar  21:52  Yeah… emotions and feelings are inconvenient, unhelpful and not a source of benefit, and beneficial. Whereas when we start to acknowledge and validate our feelings, we and heal from that, that gaslighting that, that our feelings are not valid and, and shouldn’t be shared and all that that destabilizes our source of inner wisdom that relies on our emotional responses to things healthy emotional responses to things to guide us. And if we’re taught to that our feelings aren’t valid, then we’re completely disconnected from that emotional wisdom..

Dr. Dar Hawks  22:35  Hence, hence a lot of the ailments that happen in in humans today. What what what did you experience just in your body? How did your body compensate for you know, learning to bury your feelings deep in your body?

Sama Morningstar  22:50  I started out early on. And this is a combination between the circumstances around breastfeeding happening where I was not adequately breastfed. And then what I was fed was inadequate for the development of my digestive tract that started out with this, you know, the emotions and the upsetness of an infant who’s not being fed adequately and being ignored. So the practice back then, which was a deliberate effort to disrupt the natural process of breastfeeding by the baby formula, companies were feeding in incorrect information about breastfeeding to the doctor. So my mother was told to only breastfeed me. And this was a common practice through for several generations, to only breastfeed me every four hours, and let me cry it out in between. and this is insufficient nutrition for a developing newborn. It completely thwarts the mother’s development of enough milk, the babies are were supposed to feed on demand. And that and that slowly develops the baby’s stomach capacity to to drink more milk at the same time that it develops the mother’s breast capacity to produce more milk. So there’s a natural evolution of breastfeeding that happens that there’s a natural rhythm that the baby and mother develop if they’re encouraged to listen to their own inner wisdom at the mothers encouraged to listen to the baby and the baby and the and her own body’s wisdom, then breastfeeding can can happen.

Dr. Dar Hawks  24:37  This is all tied to the systemic issues that we’re experiencing now resulting from the patriarchy decided by patriarchy for sure. I mean, wearing a bra and of course it is another one right.

Sama Morningstar  24:51  You’re not supposed to be seen even though like the whole purpose of your life is to get pregnant and have babies and raise them. None of that is supposed to be visible. So they would have trench coats when they were pregnant to cover up when they were out in public so that their pregnant belly, and their milk filled breasts would not be seen. And, you know, there was all this shame around breastfeeding. And that was a deliberate lie and disruption and all those things in your definition of gaslighting around child rearing and breastfeeding and how we raise our young?

Dr. Dar Hawks  25:30  Well, I’m sure that all of us that are that are participating in this conversation and listening, we’ll start to see see symptoms of this everywhere.

Sama Morningstar  25:43  It showed up in my body early on in my digestive system, because I didn’t get that development show, you know, leaving an infant to cry it out when they’re basically feeling like they’re starving. They’re not getting their nutritional needs met. Their very life is at stake here. That’s oftentimes you can hear that kind of a cry of like, this is not what I was like. Yeah. And we’re not trained to pay attention to that, because we’re parents to this day to let them cry it out, or You’ll spoil them…

So you’re spoiling them by by disregarding their instinctual need to be nurtured and cared for, you know, and so, that emotional, initial emotional trauma, then I had to like, learn how that they’re saying, there’s the baby supposed to learn how to self soothe?

Well, that’s just the initial overriding of our inner wisdom that says, I’m going to die if I’m not fed and held and touched. Yeah, there’s a difference between that and self soothing for sure. Yes. So, you know, gaslighting at work, just kind of transitioning to a different topic. You know, executives, managers, co workers, the gaslighting absolutely does happen at work, if you’re, you know, anytime your feelings or your thoughts are invalidated repeatedly, you start to doubt yourself, you start to question yourself, you start to feel insecure, you know, your confidence goes down, those are all endemic of, you know, anyone in a position of power over you that you perceive has power over you, especially people holding the purse strings, so to speak. So, you know, the performance review system, all of that is, I think, very, very difficult to navigate.

And again, we’re not taught how to navigate it. So, you know, for you, did you ever experience this at work gaslighting? Well, first, before I answer that question, I’ll give a little lead up to it, which is that I haven’t spent a whole whole lot of my time as an employee, largely because of this, because of my, my need to explore healing and my unwillingness to accept the basic baseline of suffering that I saw most people just taking for granted. Yep.

And my recognition of how these blueprints so when I went to college, I studied psychology and women’s studies, and all of these things that we’ve been talking about became more and more prevalent in my awareness. And I was already really aware of all of these things from my upbringing, and, you know, witnessing this and my parents and all of that. And, and so I can say that any work environment that I was in where there was employees and staff, it was very clear to me that the people who were managing, were doing so in a very unhealthy power dynamic, because they had their own wounding patterns from their childhood that were unexamined, and were not being addressed. And so they were just repeating the same abusive relationship dynamics that they had inherited from their parents and never examined or never looked at.

Dr. Dar Hawks  29:23  I think we’re definitely seeing that or have seen that in the, in the, you know, combination of the last four years of the political climate come to the forefront in the in the extreme version of the patriarchy. It’s It’s very, it’s, it’s out in the open for all of us to see now.

Sama Morningstar  29:41  And what I noticed in my own personal healing process, is that in order for me to really see clearly once I had the resources available to heal a pattern or a set of patterns and that would bring once it was only once I had have the resources available to me that it would bring it up in such technical or painful detail, I would find myself in a relationship, that just epitomize the pattern to the extreme, which is similar to what we’ve been experiencing in our politics, we are finally at a place collectively, where perhaps we have some of the resources that we need, as far as healing modalities that we might be able to do collectively to get to the other side of some of these patterns, it’s then and only then, that the pattern can come up in its full glory. And I feel like that’s what we’re seeing in the political environment. And the last years is like, finally, people are starting to wake up enough, enough, people are waking up enough to what healing work we need to do collectively, that, then that the full ugliness of what’s been hidden underneath the denial zone, right. can come to the surface, and and we can see the work that we have cut out for ourselves.

Dr. Dar Hawks  31:04  Just to tie back to it happening at work, you know, being told, you’re too nice being told you’re you know, you can’t show your emotions in the workplace being being controlled and dominated and how to, you know how to behave or how to, this one really gets me the whole perception is reality model in corporations where, you know, you’re perceived this way, fix it? Well, I come from the place that it’s your perception, I can’t change your perception of me, if I don’t know what that is. 

It creates this very traumatic, dynamic, that power relationship dynamic. Also, the notion of, you know, being collaborative versus competitive, we were raised in a very competitive patriarchal systems. And if you’re somebody who’s a collaborator, you get a lot done. You have all kinds of wonderful relationships. But you’re, you’re the minority. So then you’re singled out for that. It’s, it’s, it shows up in so many different ways. And we’re not equipped on how to have the conversations in a very honoring way to push back and create something different. And if you can’t create something different in that construct, leaving.

Sama Morningstar  32:30  Yeah, well, I mean, my, my experience with all of this is speaking up about it and getting fired.

Or quitting just right.  Well, you’re a staff person, I’ve been an entrepreneur for most of my life. and the only employee situations where I stayed for any length of time were ones where the people that I was working with had some kind of healing awareness, I worked at Waldorf schools for a period of time, which is very focused on very therapeutic education models. So but I’m not saying that, that that kind of those kinds of damn dynamics didn’t happen there. But at the particular school that I was at, and the people that I worked with, it was minimal enough, and I had enough fulfillment in the work that I was doing that I stayed for a period of time. Awesome.

Dr. Dar Hawks  33:23  That’s great that you knew that for yourself for me. For me, I’ve worked at a lot of different organizations, still very male dominant organizations. And this last iteration of of being let go, I decided that was it. That’s the last time I’m done with the patriarchal model, even with my doctors, I made that change a long time ago. It’s it’s a collaborative model and reciprocal model and a listening model, a communicative model, and if that doesn’t exist, then you’re you know, we’re done. So let’s talk about religion. This one’s a big one. I think we’ve definitely seen it with the birth of the and evangelical model. What What do you remember about you know, religion and gaslighting in that context or construct? Well,

Sama Morningstar  34:16  I definitely remember two things. One, was that my reflective questions where I would find the loopholes in the stories that were in a school would be just sort of swept under the rug moved on from ignored, not answered. And if I insisted I was, you know, told to be quiet be not being punished. Yeah. not recognizing at that young age that individuals not equipped to answer the questions because they’ve not actually on the book. I think I did recognize that it was like, they obviously don’t know what they’re talking about. As the beginning of the end of my involvement in those organized religions, right, and then the other thing was, gosh, I’m…it’s slipping my mind now. But I think you talked about teachers when we were talking.

The self expression of women, church. And so I have a little story to tell about that I was involved in a church in a Baptist Church and in San Francisco. And it was very creative. There was a lot of artistic expression, we put on various plays. The kids were and I was, you know, a kid involved in the plays, and we did all these plays. And then this dance teacher came and was, was working with us to do these these beautiful dances to Christian music, right. And I was, you know, I was a young prepubescent girl, we had, you know, all in white dresses, and we’re doing this, you know, Easter dance and scrape. And then the adult women, the moms got out there, and they were doing this dance. And I just remember this whole hullabaloo afterwards, that it was too sexual. Oh, wow. Even though everybody was in these white dresses, and it was this expression of, you know, hallelujah Hosanna you know, the rebirth of the Son of God and all of this. The fact that we were out there in in springtime, white dresses, it wasn’t so much the younger women, it was the adult women that, quaint, that that are that are expression of devotion, are bought our physical expression of devotion to the divine, was made wrong.

Dr. Dar Hawks  37:10  You know, there’s a distinction that’s coming to me as I’m listening to you share this this experience – there’s a big difference between sexual and sensual and sensual is about sensing and connecting, which is different from sexual energy… you have both in sexual energy, but that that was a sense, a sensing connection type of activity.

Let’s go to the medical establishment… there’s quite a few people writing about gaslighting happening in the medical and even the psychiatric establishment. Again, you know, all of these systems were created in from the mindset of left brain and patriarchal male dominated energies. So I’m not surprised it’s happening. Do you have some examples around women experiencing this with doctors by chance?

Sama Morningstar  38:08  Well, as a holistic health practitioner, I could go into the historical collective gaslighting of sort of the feminine branches of healthcare, like, yeah, and herbalism. And like that, but anyone can look up that historical thing and know and find out that modern medicine, especially gynecology today, is founded on the invalidation of feminine models of care, and the invalidation of the female body, and its biology. In fact, most of General Medical Research until the 1990s was done on solely male bodied animals and humans, currently excluding the female body, because the complexities of the integrated female reproductive system, changed the results. But that didn’t mean they didn’t give those treatments and drugs to women. No, go ahead. We did the research on men. It should work for you too, even though they knew enough to know not to include women in the research because that would change the results.

Like there’s just this complete disconnect in the medical system between you know, what’s considered to be good practice and female bodies? Yeah, once once medical medicine become it became industrialized. Anything that took time was taken out.

 

Dr. Dar Hawks  39:43  It was deliberately removed? … to become industrialized, and profit focused?

Sama Morningstar  39:52  Yep. Agreed.

It had to be removed in order for that to happen. Yeah, and and so That’s the foundations that any medical doctor right now, despite their best intentions, are standing on. They’re all standing on those foundations especially gynecologists, the founders, the founder of modern gynecology is a mass murderer.

Yeah, he experimented on with with anesthetized enslaved black America. That’s right. I do remember reading about that for years, and that energy carries forward into the systems. Yeah. And that’s the all of those procedures that are promoted now at the exclusion of any kind of nutritional or, you know, caring for yourself or hygiene or any of these more holistic, you know, all of that’s considered you know, holistic self care and really learning how to nourish your body into the best wellness is it has been vilified. What have some of your your clients who are who are birthing mothers experienced, you know, by the time they call you, you know, as a as a doula, okay, so a doula is a person who is trained to support birthing mothers through the childbirth process, and its emotional support and physical support, not so much medical support. And a good doula in there’s research that shows that doula services greatly diminish how much medical intervention a birthing mother might need, right? Yeah, part of the doula training is to assist and train the birthing parents to ask better questions, and insist upon their desires and wishes about their birth process being listened to and considered when they are in a medical birth environment.

Because the medical birth environment is set up systemically, to put procedure over what is actually happening, and they have procedures in place that are not based on evidence, research evidence that shows what actually is conducive to the best birth outcomes. The procedures are based on what’s the most convenient oftentimes for the doctor or the other professionals as far as like, you know, things like inducing labor or, you know, plant scheduling assists arian birth by most. Right, yeah, on Friday, so that the doctors aren’t there on the weekends. Yeah, the convenience and the and the corporation.

And like birthing positions, for example. The having the mother lay on her back is absolutely the worst birthing position for, for mothers to be in it, it stalls out the birth, it creates more pain, it doesn’t facilitate the baby’s progressive movement through the birth canal and being born. And yet, it’s insisted upon by many medical facilities, for the convenience of the doctors and nurses to be able to be sitting in a chair in front of the birthing mother and assisting the birth. And so there’s countless examples like this, where and part of the work of a doula is to empower the birthing parents to be able to benefit from the thing to be able to interface with the medical community, but does have some important resources and support that can be utilized.

But in order to have those be available, you have to also be able to navigate this systemic gaslighting of the natural birthing process, that where the doctors are saying, you know, basically the procedures and the doctors and the nurses are all insisting that all of their procedures are the best thing for the baby and the mother’s feeling about what’s the best thing for her birthing process. And her baby is disregarded and gaslit and disrupted.

Dr. Dar –  We go to the, the perceived expert for the information, but what’s coming to me right now is, you know, totally off topic, but I’ve really been looking at my own life around the business of convenience, and who that really benefits so you know, the Amazon model, all of these models that are that are convenient for me, versus models that are there to support my well being And the well being of my community. I’m just really looking at that. And it’s it’s, it’s all tied to what we’re talking about here. It’s convenient to have, you know, the hospital room set up the way it is and convenient. But who is it convenient for? And and what are the, what are the consequences of that convenience, you know, an area that I see in my coaching business, people staying with their therapist, knowing it’s not a good fit, knowing that there’s a lack of alignment, knowing that they feel uncomfortable, and in many cases, not safe. I’m not saying they’re all like that, but there’s a trend with with the clients that I have.

And I think the biggest reason that they don’t want to change is because going to another one, it’s like you’re training someone else and baring your heart again, and you have to go through the cycle. Again, and for me, you know, having severe allergies and asthma, and environmental allergies. Again, the medical model put me in this box, and it wasn’t it wasn’t making me better. So I started empowering myself through honestly life or death, you know, situations where I had to start learning and doing the research and, and questioning.

But this power dynamic of men, men, even females who, who have this power dynamic energy over another individual, because we think they’re an expert, or we’ve put them on a pedestal has to stop we’re all equals and we’re accountable for our own well being. 

How do gaslighters, keep us engaged, you know, what, what are those hooks that hook into us and keep us engaged and, and causes us to stay? And in these kinds of relationships…

Sama Morningstar  46:56  The biggest thing that comes up when you ask that question is this dynamic of when we’re, when someone’s gaslighting you, they’re basically oftentimes telling you that you’re 100% responsible for whatever difficulty is going on, and that they are not responsible

Dr. Dar Hawks  47:17 And that creates a dependency it sounds like on them?

Sama Morningstar  47:22  Well, what it creates is, especially for people who are caretakers who are particularly empathic, who perhaps took on their parents’ difficult emotions, when they were growing up, which is very common, and then then they the person takes on empathically, whatever difficult feelings The gaslighter is having, and, and starts to feel guilty for that, that maybe they’ve caused the gaslighter harm, and it flips the story. And and then they start to, then, you know, we start those who are being gaslighted start to gaslit start to doubt their own, you know, inner wisdom, you know, they want to take risk, we want to take responsibility. And now we’re hearing somebody giving us feedback, saying, we need to take more responsibility, right at the moment, usually, when we’re asking them to take some of the responsibility and the difficulty that we’re having in the relationship. And they really good arguments about how No, it’s really all my fault. And I’ve been in relationships like that. And I remember getting to a point where I realized, oh, wait a second, is it possible that in any relationship, one person is 100% responsible for difficulties, and the other person has no responsibility? No, that’s possible. It’s always 50/50. Always 50/50. And so if and so that’s a big strategy, that gas lighters do and narcissistic pattern is to flip the story, so that they have no responsibility for what’s going on. And they’re very convincing, very convincing. Yeah, and charismatic.

People who are susceptible to receiving that kind of treatment tend to be quite empathic and tend to really work it. Yep, certainly, make sure they’re to my experience, I tried to take responsibility. Prior to the blame game. I didn’t want to participate in the blame game. So I stopped myself anytime I tried to, you know, assert that they needed to take responsibility too. And then I would go back to doing my own inner work to take more responsibility, more responsibility. Pretty soon I realized, wait a second. I’m taking all the responsibility and you’re taking none of the responses. ability that just doesn’t work math wise, you know? No, it doesn’t not in any relationship and I think it’s true for people pleasers care, people who have caring kind, you know, other focused, service oriented perspectives, even the sensitives in US can definitely fall for that. What are some common feelings that result from experiencing gaslighting from your perspective? Well, for me, there was a lot of depression, confusion, despair,  hopelessness. just feeling like trapped, like I wasn’t going to be able to get out of this situation that it was never going to get better. That no matter how hard I work, but feeling so depleted, so exhausted, but no matter what, no matter how hard I work, no matter how much I depleted myself, it was never going to get any better. And it’s and it’s true, those feelings are very true, those feelings are very wise because the situation is one of completely depleting that caregiving person’s resources for the benefit of the person who’s gaslighting and doesn’t want to be giving any energy they’re taking. It’s a vampire trick dynamic, where the gaslighting person is just siphoning energy from the caretaking person. And that becomes the reality of the caretaking person, every little bit of care is just unappreciated taken advantage of taken for granted. And more is elicited.

 

Dr. Dar Hawks  51:37  Yeah, and for for, you know, both our audiences, or the people that you work with, and the ones that I do as well. Or I think that the the medical model is not addressing the root cause of this exhaustion of, you know, we’re medicating it rather than looking at our lives. And really, it’s why I think alternative methods do dig deep and look at the environment and look at, you know, what’s creating this this result of adrenal fatigue or, you know, physical exhaustion… it’s all connected. So to your point about gaslighting in that perspective, too.

You talked a little bit about gaslighting triangle and three roles in a prior conversation we had. Can you talk about the three roles, describe them and give examples of them?

Sama Morningstar  52:26  Right, so the triangle is the Savior, the persecutor, and the victim. Okay. And this is something that I’m exploring more, I feel like I have lots, it just resonated so much when someone talked to me about it. I know I’ve heard about it before, but I hadn’t really made it so central in in the way I look at things. So I’m not by no means an expert on this. This is a philosophy or a theory that you can look up and find authors who’ve written more extensively on it. But from my personal experience, you know, for a long time, I’ve been very clear that I didn’t want to be behaving like a victim. And behaving like a victim means that you’re blaming the persecutor, for whatever it is that you’re feeling that’s not working for you and your life. And you’re looking for a savior. Somebody outside of yourself, who will save you from quite often looking to the persecutor for that saving, which is never going to happen. That’s the positioning that often occurs is that the persecutor positions themselves, especially a gaslighter, will position themselves as your Savior, as the savior of the victim, and will be in complete denial about how they’re persecuting that, ironically, people who are out there trying to save victims often become the persecutor inadvertently, especially when they start, you know, and this applies to helping professionals a lot.

Sama Morningstar  54:12 I’ve even fallen into this trap sometimes, too, because you get really passionate about wanting to help a person and if you see them, not choosing a pathway that you can see and feel like you can see would be a way for them to get out of their difficult circumstance, for whatever reason, you don’t understand why. And you start insisting that, well, if you would just go down this pathway that I’m telling you about, then that becomes a persecutor dynamic because you’re telling them that you’re a great man, Almighty wisdom is more valid than whatever wisdom is in them, that’s telling them not to go down that pathway.

Dr. Dar – Yeah, that whole projecting model, for sure. And, you know, I think all of this would, it would take time, but if we were to normalize mental emotional health holistically, then then we can start to heal as a community and as a society.

Sama Morningstar  55:15 Well, it’s hard to do normalize it in a society that’s that’s built on these right, which is why it hasn’t happened. And justice, right, I mean, that whole dynamic is intrinsic in the structures of our society, especially in a capitalist society, where you know that it’s all about the people with the most resources, having all the power and angling to get more and more of the resources and exploiting and having that vampiric energetic suck out of the people that don’t, and not giving anything back and not nourishing the community that’s nourishing them. You know, it’s, it’s very difficult to, and that’s why so many people who should have, you know, feel like they have a really good life, you know, corporate professionals that are getting a good wage and whatever, they end up with adrenal fatigue because the lifestyle is unsustainable, the lifestyle they have to live in order to be in that environment is unsustainable for human beings.

Dr. Dar Hawks  56:12  I completely agree with that. I’ve had a near death because I, I played in that hands hamster wheel for so long. Yeah. So the term that you use, I just love this term sovereign self responsibility. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Sama Morningstar  56:32  Sovereignty to me, and there’s probably lots of different definitions, I’m probably a little off from the dictionary definition. But for me, that means that I make my own rules. All right, and then I can choose whether or not I play by the rules that somebody else is making, that there’s a conscious decision about the rules of society, whether I choose to play by the rules that the commonly agreed upon rules or not, there’s an awareness about that. And, and that’s where the self responsibility comes in, that says, I choose and I’m responsible for whether or not I play by these collective agreements that may or may not be beneficial for me or anyone else, for that matter. And that’s how change occurs is that people who have a sense of sovereignty for one way or another, gain some sense of sovereignty, say, you know what, this collective rule isn’t really working for anyone, myself included, and and therefore, I’m going to choose differently, and choose something that works better for me and others.

Now, that’s very different from sovereign irresponsibility where people say I want to have freedom, and I should be able to do whatever I like, even if it hurts, other people have certainly seen them the last four weeks, even if it’s harmful for myself, and everything else, I should have the freedom to do whatever I darn well, please. So that’s sovereign irresponsibility. And that’s, that’s a symptom of the patriarchal domination model. And it’s just more of the same domination and enslavement for everyone. Even the people who think that they’re getting that freedom, are terribly enslaved and duped by the system and don’t even realize

Dr. Dar Hawks  58:29  I’m clear. I’ve been having those conversations with my husband lately of, you know, having been let go of the job late last year, right before Thanksgiving, and taking a look at this patriarchal model and how I’ve been feeling all this time and recognizing that I’ve very much been that slave to the corporation or manager in charge for sure. And, have been exploited for my gifts and talents, but not recognized for them. Because it’s convenient and beneficial to them.

Sama Morningstar  58:58  There’s this collective gaslighting that’s been going on where we’re led to believe that this pursuit of the American Dream is going to get us this freedom and this empowerment at some point if we just play by the rules of the system, but that is one of those lies in gaslighting. The only people that that really benefits are the people at the very top. It’s the ultimate pyramid scheme, right? Yeah, they aren’t having the benefits that they know they’re miserable. They’re miserable. There’s never a getting enough so that you can finally be happy. That is why the people who are billionaires are constantly working to become multimillionaires, to become trillionaires and that’s why the people who have the top 1% of the wealth have so much wealth it is absolutely ridiculous and are continuing to vie to get more because there’s such a deep hole of emptiness in their soul that they cannot fill it even by stealing all have the money and resources and power from everyone in the entire world, their whole of emptiness inside them will never be filled.

Dr. Dar Hawks  1:00:08  I think we’ve certainly seen that in the forefront with with leadership. So, you know, could you share why you said yes to come on on the show a little bit about that?

Sama Morningstar  1:00:21 As you may have been noticing this topic is one of a great deal of passion, it feels very central to a lot of the work that I feel called to do to call people back to their own sovereign sense of responsibility, and to validate our own inner intrinsic wisdom that comes from a place of connectedness to the benefit of all living beings. mission that, that everything is part of the greater living being of the entire universe. So the rock, under your feet in the road that might make you twist, your ankle is actually a relative, wanting to connect with you. And, and like that, and the trees, and the birds and the ancestors that have passed that don’t have a physical body anymore, but that are still in our DNA, and in our breath, and in the fire and in the other beings that surround us. As we start to recognize our interconnectedness, and feel that interconnectedness, then everything we do, every breath we take every bird, every word we say, becomes this act of devotion and reverence to the well being of all. And I just said, quite a mouthful there.

Dr. Dar Hawks  1:01:47  I just I love it. I think you’ve just tied in what self sovereign self responsibility is, in what you just shared, and that interconnectedness. And, and, you know, what you’d shared previously, was healing this pattern, these patterns is essential for all of us personally. First, my add to that is when we do that, personally, then we’re impacting and influencing the collective, if we are going to evolve and survive the human and Planetary crisis we’re in. So the sovereign self responsibility creates sovereign partnership models of relating with ourselves, each other’s each other, all living beings on the planet, and then we can create evolved systems from that. So I was taking your words and adding MINE MINE into it. And it’s just a beautiful way that you you share it all of that. How do you you know, I have this, I guess it’s a belief or a thought. Thought doesn’t give it as much power as a belief. So I’ll just choose the word thought. If more women were aware of gaslighting, you know, if we learned how to communicate and push back, if you will, when and if it happens, and be a stand for ourselves, I believe and think that we would have fewer incidents and issues of gaslighting and enabling those behaviors. What do you think about that? 

Sama Morningstar  1:03:11  Well, for me what I talk about what I teach people, one of my first things when people subscribe to my newsletter, the first recorded meditation they receive is called the womb listening meditation. And so what happens is, as we learn to listen to our inner guidance, that our ancestors towards life regenerative, ways of living, okay, so that’s what that is about. And when we’re oriented towards life generating ways of living when we’re listening to our womb wisdom on a biological and mystical level. It’s impossible for us to be gaslit.

Sama Morningstar  1:03:56  Because it’s just ridiculous if somebody tries to tell us that’s not true. What we just were feeling inside at that depth of where there’s that rootedness in what actually makes life flourish? Why would we want to align with anything else? And then once you arrive at that alignment to your point, you no longer attract any of those non malevolent benevolent energies or behaviors or individuals. When you encounter them. They just it’s like water off a duck’s back. Yeah, but even that is more beneficial than greed. It’s more like okay, that’s going in the compost pile.

Dr. Dar Hawks  1:04:41  It’s interesting, you know, just that when we start, when we arrive at that place of alignment, and don’t attract and empower or get feed those behaviors, then those individuals start their journey. their inner work and healing. It’s very counterintuitive is how that how that works is when their strategies stop working

Sama Morningstar  1:05:09  What I see too, that happens when that when that occurs, it’s kind of like watching a heroin addict, stop having their heroine, there will be huge resistance, huge tantrums, tantrums and insistence that they ought to be able to get their fix from people that they were vampire ring off of. And that’s what we’re going to be seeing as more and more of the collective of humanity is saying no, and that’s what we are seeing the whole world is seeing it through the lens of the you know, you know, the state, the United States of America, or the West.  We have news about that, because we are in the United States.

Dr. Dar Hawks  1:05:53  Exactly. It’s all out now.  You had stated how this can show up in day to day relationships at home or work as well? What are some examples of mild versions when this happens when there’s conflicts or fear or insecurities, difficult feelings, or circumstances and our relational patterns?

Sama Morningstar  1:06:14  We talked about how there’s a, there’s a difference between being in a chronically gaslighting and abusive relationship where the person isn’t taking any responsibility, and you’re having to take 100% responsibility. And the best line of action is to remove oneself from the situation and relationship…that is the most extreme form… but the truth of the matter is, is that all of us have these imprints, even if we are with someone else, who is also, you know, in our relationships with people who are, take, you know, doing their best to take responsibility, there can be moments in there where, you know, in that tricky navigation of me recognizing my 50%, and you’re 50%, when I’m going to need to learn how to say, and I and it seems like perhaps maybe you’re not aware of the 50% that I think I’m seeing, how can I communicate that with you without getting into the blame game? Right? And how can I receive that kind of feedback from someone without getting into some of those strategies of defensiveness and denial and all of that, that the blame game has, right. So extracting ourselves from those very deeply ingrained, habitual communication patterns, take some study and practice and support, right, and so being able to give and receive communication about each other’s feelings and needs, that might be sources of friction, you know, the dirty socks that get left on the floor, or, you know, a person that you’re living with habit patterns around cleanliness, or you know…

The rhythms of life, and then, you know, meal preparation, just the basic day to day things, that you might have a preference around or see a better way to accomplish and want to communicate that and may fall into in a moment of fatigue or out of habit, or, at first this is why a lot of, you know roommate, housemate family marriage relationships become quite problematic in the early years of first starting to cohabitate together is because the system, the family systems, and relationship patterns that we’ve been taught, have been intrinsically abusive and not healthy. And so we don’t have, you know, unless we’ve gone and sought out training and healing both both healing and training, because we have to not only heal the wounds from the unhealthy behaviors that we were raised in, and that, you know, we might have felt harmful to us. But we also have to learn new behaviors, we have to learn how to behave differently, because that’s how we were programmed growing up.  And create that together.  Yeah, and create that together. So, you know, examples, don’t just dive into the relationship, and then that’s right. And so for me, like, you know, I, my first strategy of being able to even have that kind of long term internet relationship is that I was only able to do that within the context of a yoga ashram where everybody’s behavior was being regulated by the authority that the authority figure at the ashram and there were rules that everyone had to follow or they got kicked out. And so that alleviated the need for Navigating what the rules were going to be? Right. So I was able to have an 11 year wonderful relationship with my husband without ever having to navigate anything. But we weren’t married yet. Well, we left that ashram and we went and got married. And we’re living together in same house for the first time, suddenly, we’re starting to realize that okay, we neither of us wants to be stuck with the same rules that that authority figure because we left there, now we got to come up with our own rules. And maybe you think the rule about leaving dirty socks on the floor ought to be different than what I think the rule ought to be. So how are we going to navigate that without making each other wrong? And now it’s a source of humor, and you know, when we run into these small things, and there’s deeper things, too, is of like, are you really caring for me? Will you really care for me in a moment of need, if you can’t even pick your dirty socks off off the floor? Right? So there’s all of these things? That little things like that, like the dirty socks can bring up deeper? Like, are you going to abandon me like my father did? And is this dirty sock on the floor assignment? That’s going to be the case?

Sama Morningstar  1:11:09 So everybody in this in these kinds of mutually sovereign self responsible relationships has to be, you know, taking responsibility for the continued healing process and nurturing of a healthy flourishing sense of, of connection. 

Dr. Dar Hawks  1:11:42  Your example is the dirty socks, mine is about loading the dishwasher.  But then looking back on that experience, it’s like, oh, my gosh, something so trivial, connected to things so deeply embedded that are traumatic and emotional, you know, I, it’ll be interesting to revisit that example. And from this lens now. So I’m excited that you have actually, let me go through some of the ways that it showed up that we talked about or that you’ve shared, defending oneself or denying when someone points out a mistake or asks for an improvement, flipping the story and blaming the other person when they point out something or ask for an improvement, escalating animosity or anger around a situation when it’s just human human to human conflict, engaging and shaming conversations about people behind their back, that one’s a big trigger for me, and then blaming others for our own our own issues, difficulties or situation or, you know, whatever it is, you know, and there’s varying degrees, if you were Look, look, a fuel gauge, so to speak of this happening in our lives, and you kind of want to be on the low end, because we all do it, regarding you know, depending on what state of mind or emotionality we are in the moment, but it’s when it’s repetitive, going back to the definition of gaslighting that it becomes a serious concern and an issue for making sure that you’re getting yourself taken care of.

Now we’re coming to something that you have to share with it with everyone. And that’s the workbook, what’s the title of it? And how does how can it help with gaslighting?

Sama Morningstar  1:13:17  My workbook is called the herbal womb wellness workbook. And when you were just talking right now, I was realizing that the pathway to heal from all those patterns that you just talked about, oftentimes to get that gas gauge back down to the low so that we’re low on gas lighting, right? Yeah.

1:13:42  Way to go to tie it together.

Sama Morningstar  1:13:44  It’s a good metaphor, gas, gas lighting. All right. So we’re trying to get down to low. The one of the best strategies that was coming up for me is to really make sure that we’re caring for our own needs biological, emotional and spiritual needs. So whether that’s making sure that we have the support we need for our emotional healing process, our spiritual growth process, and also having really good biological health practices. So the kind of foods that we’re eating, how much hydration we’re getting, how much exercise we’re having, the quality of exercise that we’re having, so that we’re in really good physical, emotional, and mental health and all of our needs being met. Most of the gaslighting behavior comes out of not having our needs met. Yep. And try and leaning into manipulative, controlling behaviors to try and get someone else to meet our needs. When we’re really the ones that are not meeting our own needs. Now somebody may be contributing to our needs not being met, but it’s really in that sovereign responsibility, our responsibility to know the rules for ourselves what Makes me feel well cared for what do I really need? And that can be, you know, a lifelong exploration and discovery process, you know, you could think you know, it all know what you need now and two years from now or 10 years from now the needs can change, right? One of the main needs, especially for women, that is not met, is an understanding awareness and healthy relationship with our menstrual cycle. And we’re taught to ignore it, like we spoke about at the beginning, we’re taught, we’re not initiated into the power of it. When it first begins our whole life, we’re ignoring it, we’re ignoring it, the symptoms get bigger and bigger and bigger, the more we ignore it, the more we treat our don’t give our bodies the nourishment and care that we need as menstruating bodies. By the time we, you know, get into our 40s and 50s. Sometimes even in our 30s, the symptoms have gotten so bad that perhaps we even end up with a hysterectomy, which we still haven’t, don’t understand the full ramifications of that procedure for the overall health and well being. I have, you know, theoretical understandings, but there hasn’t been really much, you know, scientific study about that. But what we do, what I know is that it doesn’t really remove the source of the issue was that that that person lived their whole life without meeting their own biological, emotional and spiritual needs are having them being met, and not not having the the resources or the impetus to take care of that. And so that that’s what this book addresses is learning about the menstrual cycle, learning how to listen to the messages that the menstrual cycle is giving us or gave us in the past. So it’s just as helpful for people who no longer menstruate for whatever reason. And because if you spent your whole life up until the time that you stopped menstruating, for whatever reason, ignoring the messages of your menstrual cycle, those issues are still there, very likely. If and they are still affecting your health on all levels.

And so going back and looking at what your menstrual cycle was trying to tell you what your womb was trying to tell you. And learning that womb listening is especially important for people who spent their whole life not listening to that, hmm, and shutting out the pain, because those those patterns of not listening are even that much more deeply ingrained. For those folks. So that’s a big question I get about this book. Well, I don’t menstruate anymore, why would I get this book, you need this book more than even those who are starting and you know, then even more than a young woman who’s just starting to menstruating her Auntie or her mother or her grandma is giving her a copy of this book, which I also encourage. But it would seem that it would be the opposite, that they would need it more, but actually, I would differ, I would beg to differ that the person who went their whole life, not listening and not understanding this is still in great need, and then need a greater need, if you can, any kind of hierarchy of need.

Dr. Dar – 1:18:24  That’s talking about another patriarchal model

Sama Morningstar  1:18:31 We all can benefit greatly. And learn mostly to listen to that inner voice, perhaps for the first time, you know, and, and really start to get in touch with how it communicates with us how our body is communicating this intrinsic wisdom, that’s, that’s connected with the rhythms of nature and all of that and starting to learn that and how to nourish that with with herbal practices that are very nourishing, gentle, safe, and and healing. Wonderful. So I’ll provide the link will provide the link to to get the book I highly recommend it as well. Sounds like it really connects women with their with their inner wisdom and their bodies. And there’s also recipes in the book. 

Darshana Hawks  1:19:21 There are some recipes, there’s also instructions, how to make your own recipes, so that there’s more of that than my own recipes. You know, herbal ism is is a very personal thing I feel and clinical herbalist would would be doing a full assessment of you and adjusting recipes with you working one to one to make sure that you’re having just the right recipe for for you. So if you’re but if you’re not going to work with a one to one herbalist, or maybe you will, but if you’re it is very safe to explore making your own recipes listening to your own inner wisdom. And that makes more sense with a book like this than me listing a whole bunch of recipes that may or may not be the right thing for any person at any given time. And are these teas or what what are they recipes for?

Sama Morningstar  1:20:18  There’s teas and tinctures. So a tea is when you use water to extract the goodness from the herbs. tinctures when you use alcohol or glycerin is another option that extracts and preserves. So those lasts longer, the tea goes bad after a bit. There’s also steaming. So the book is is mainly initially I endeavored to write a book about steaming and what I learned as a vaginal steam facilitator. So steaming is it’s called fumigation and Chinese medicine and Ayurvedic medicine. It’s a way of administering the herbs through the skin. And it’s an ancient practice that exists still to this day, throughout the world and cultures throughout the world have specifically treating the womb and warming the womb and nourishing the womb with steam from below. And it’s been persecuted and vilified as an invalid practice by the gynecological model. And we all discussed already where that model came from. Whereas this model, the reason there’s not a whole lot of research about it is because anyone can create a steam for themselves with the tools they have in their kitchen, and the herbs that are growing in their garden, or that they can get from the grocery store. Oh, cool. Yeah, nice. So you don’t need any fancy equipment. And so that’s why it’s so hard to get any funding for any research because you can’t patent it, when people can, you know, grow their own and make their own steam. 

Sama Morningstar  1:22:01  This is a prime example of a very feminine, very nurturing, nourishing practice has been pushed to the side, in support of more profit oriented, invasive, domination oriented practices that we see in modern medicine. Especially gynecology. And so it’s very effective for a lot of the things that doctors, gynecologists tend to have one or two options for, like birth control pills, which have tremendous detrimental health effects over the long term. Whereas, you know, there’s a lot of lot that people can do for themselves, to nourish and heal the womb for themselves that are, it’s very safe. It’s just as safe as drinking a hot cup of tea, you have to bake be sure that it’s not too hot. Right? 

Dr. Dar Hawks  1:22:57  Given that you mentioned that these are easily accessible herbs that we already have in our gardens, and you get from the grocery store, I think that’ll be very educational. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for making this on your contribution. This is a conversation that matters. I think it is absolutely important that we start having more of these dialogues. I really appreciate your journey and your experiences that brought you to your your life’s work and purpose. And thank you for all the contributions that you’re making to to women through your work as well.

Sama Morningstar 1:23:35  Thank you for asking such all inclusive questions, really, we spanned you know, all different aspects of life and bringing it back to practicalities that people could listeners can really relate to Oh, yes, this really applies to my life. I really appreciate that.

Dr. Dar Hawks  1:23:51  I really appreciate again, your time and the gift of your knowledge. I will provide the link for everyone at the end of this video so that you can go get the book, I will definitely be checking it out for myself. And please connect with Sama and refer her to others in your life who may benefit from our work.

You can also learn more about my work with women people pleasers and having them thrive in their lives, work, business and relationships through my website.

I invite you to start learning about the five human relationship superpowers and learn about your specific superpower by taking the free feelgood superpower quiz at Dr. Donald calm. And I’ll drop the link at the end of this video for you as well.

What’s Your Relationship Personality Type?

What's Your Relationship Personality Type?

Learn about your relationship personality type, how to cure any relationship or communication issue without stress, anxiety, or worry.

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Relationship Personality Type Quiz - solve any relationship problem
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